Turnigy Multistar 30A

[Floyer007]

I'd flashed the Turnigy Multistar 30A (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25365__Turnigy_Multistar_30_Amp_Multi_rotor_Brushless_ESC_2_4S.html) with kda.hex and it's getting very hot after a few seconds. One of my ESC burned down and after it my Motor, too.

I'd tried different versions since 2012 and they all have the same problem.

Thank you for fixing this issue.

[cmar76]

thanks and which file should i Donwload??? please... 2014-09-30????? or which one...

[Mitja2]

How did you check flashed ESC? Did you check them before fw upgrade? Those are OPTO ESC (if you understand what that means)! And when you flashing and testing, always use a current-limited source ...

[cmar76]

mitja2 actually they were working good before i made the update, and when I bought them I was pretty sure that they were with bec not opto..... in fact they are labeled as SBEC 4A

[Mitja2]

Sorry cmar76, yours are SBEC not opto...

[cmar76]

Simon could you please help me, you already sent a list of files and I don't know which one I would use, so which one you recommend? please

[dflash0]

I don't know if this discussion is dead, but I believe we are still experiencing issues with the Multistar 20A and the 9/30/14 SimonK firmware. I just flashed one of my ESC and now the motor attached to it doesn't turn. I tried it on another non-flashed ESC and it works fine. I got this HK SK450 about one week ago, so I don't know if they have changed anything in these ESC that we are not aware of. I have tried the KDA_NFET but still unresponsive. Help would be appreciated.

[dflash0]

See attached photos- front and back -

[54918ss]

Iv just brought the 30a versions with sbec, getting ready to flash them but dont know exactly which filmware would work. Any advice would be appreciated. I have the same board as cmar76 if you scroll up abit you will see. Thanks in advance

[sim-]

Hi cmar76 and dflash0 ... both of your pictures seem to look like they should work with kda_nfet.hex, as they have an inverting input NPN and discrete driving stage that would expect output inversion. cmar76, which target did you flash before when it failed to drive? The latest version should always be right. I've pushed a new commit now, too, with the input inversion skipped (as for the 6A), but ignore that at this point.

[dflash0]

So these ESC are toast even if the apparent right firmware was used? The chip continues to erase and accept new code. No smoke or spark have happened. Can they be recovered?

[dflash0]

I was using atmega 8-based Brushless ESC + enable Bootloader (8kb flash) Then chose from the submenu, kda_nfet- but they still show 9/30 date - not todays, and you said you just did a commit with changes>?

[54918ss]

Has anyone successfuly flashed the 30a new version of this esc kda_nfet. I dont want to test them on new motors just incase their known to have problems after flashing

[Kidvette58]

Hi, I just got my SK450 like (dflash0) and it will fly but I have to set the KK2 settings so low to keep it from oscillating that I can't do much with it and if the wind picks up it will still oscillate. I want to shoot video with it and do some agressive flying later when I get better and it's just not possible like it is. I see there's a lot of people having trouble with burning up their multistar 20a speed controllers that come with it. Has anyone successfully updated the new ones like (dflash0) has in his pictures and have them work? That's what mine look like. I'd like to get what I have working but I would rather buy 4 new controllers that are known to accept the firmware updates than smoke brand new controllers. I could save them for a plane or something. I heard the HK 20a Blue Series are good for updating and work well on quads. Please let me know if anyone has had success in updating the new 20a multistars or let me know what speed controllers are best for updating to go with the SK450.

Thank You!

[sim-]

I don't have that particular variant, but again, I don't see why it wouldn't work. You will damage them only if you flash the wrong firmware and don't use a current-limited supply for flashing and testing. The worst case is flashing it while it is powered from a LiPo and trying random files to see if one works. However, if it were powered from a bench supply with current limiting or some sort of switching supply that supplies a few Amperes maximum, no damage should occur.

[dflash0]

I have heard from other sources that these are not flashable and some even say the the are using blheli firmware which is also not flashable at the current time. I have neen able to fly this quad with a gimbal and a gopro with just flashing the kk board. Dont use the 10"props they will make it oscilate like crazy, i think they have to be balanced.

[Kidvette58]

I think the board is up to date. It has HW 2.15 and FW 1.6 on the display when it starts up. If the wind isn't blowing at all which rarely happens then I might be able to get some nice video. The problem I have is I have it set so low to accomplish this that if I wanted to race or do flips or any aggressive flying like that then I wouldn't be able to because of the low settings. I guess I should buy new speed controllers that are known to accept the firmware updates and save the ones I have for something else. I don't mind buying new controllers but need to know what ones are best for doing that. From what I read the HK 20a blue series are good for this. Do y'all agree with that? Or please advise which ones you think are best. Possibly 30a blue series in case I want to put bigger motors on it later? I'm open to all suggestions. I don't have any nice bench testing equipment like Simon has. I have the programmer and socket for ATMEL chips so programming isn't a problem. I also ordered a (Vortex Dynamic Balancer & Spectrum Analyzer Kit) to balance the motors. I have a prop balancer. I have several switching adapters with different voltages. What would be a good voltage? I'd love to have a scope like I saw a picture of in one of Simon's links. I'm afraid to ask what that cost. I'd love some testing equipment if you want to tell me some stuff to get. I have always liked working with electronics. I'd like to learn how to write the code myself. I know basic and I programmed computers a long time ago with RPG on a system 38. Yes that gives away my age and yours if you know what I'm talking about :) I think the code is written in C but I never learned that but am willing to learn if I knew what books to get. There are so many out there.

Thank You!

[sim-]

Let's consider each issue separately. Slow oscillation should likely only be caused by extreme frame flex or low-pass command filtering at the ESC. If you are experiencing this with the Multistar ESCs, it's likely the stock firmware. I really doubt the KK code would be doing any sort of intentional low-passing. Also, don't mix stick input gain with stabilization gains -- they may be connected, but don't have to be. You can still have crazy stick rates and do many flips per second and still have very low stabilization gains.

If the ESCs will not accept flashing, the only possible cause is that they've disabled the RST pin at the factory by setting the RSTDISBL fuse. I have not heard of any instances of this with the Multistar ESCs, but I have with the HK-SS series. If the factory used BLHeli and locked it such that ISP and the boot loader doesn't work, that would be really sad, but again, I haven't heard of this. You can confirm that it is ISP flashable by just (carefully) shorting the RST pin to ground while it's powered -- after you remove the temporary connection, you should hear the start-up tones again. If you don't, it may be locked this way (and flashing by ISP will not be possible).

If you don't have a bench supply, try borrowing a switching power supply for some other household product, preferably between 6V and 12V. Most of them will only do a few Amperes maximum, and will have output short-circuit protection. Don't try this with an old-style big transformer wall-wart one, since they usually will just blow a fuse, but any of the newer ones that look like a laptop suppy brick will probably be fine. A 5V cellphone charger type may also work, but the voltage is a bit low. I regularly use a 15A bench supply with just short circuit protection, and I haven't ever fried an ESC on it ever due to wrong high-side inversion or similar (and I've certainly done it).

If you want an oscilloscope (everybody should have one ;)), I'd consider the DS1052E (which I started with) or something from the astoundingly inexpensive DS1000Z series. The software isn't as nice as the more expensive options (Rigol, I'll fix it for free if you send me the code :)), but overall they are amazing tools (see EEVblog discussions and reviews for more info). There are lots of options. You should probably know what you're going to use it for, first, though; for example, more than 2 channel is definitely useful for working with 3-phase motors.

[Kidvette58]

It's fast oscillations I'm getting. I don't think the frame is flexing enough to make a difference but then I really don't know. So are you saying I can lower P gain low enough that I can get it to stop oscillating and still have enough controll to do flips and sharp turns? From what I read I thought that raising P gives you faster response time and raising I gives you more input or control. I know it's more complicated than that but is that mainly it? I have to lower P so much to get it to stop oscillating that I can for instance go full right for 2 seconds then go full left for 2 seconds and it's not even close to flipping. I have planes, helicopters, cars, and boats so I have been around R/C stuff all my life but this is new to me. I have a A.R Drone that you fly with an iPhone and that's what made me want one. The phone control is fun but it's not really full controll because it keeps it level and at a fixed height for you so unless you run into something you really can't crash. Not that I want to crash but it's limited in what it can do. I have a Fat Shark FPV setup on the SK450 and want to eventually race but it's so unsteady now I can't even hover around in my back yard without hitting bushes. The HK instructions say to start low and go up till it oscillates then back off some. I end up with a very low number that way especially if the wind is blowing. The more wind the worse it gets. I'm pretty sure I can flash the multistars because I can read them and I think I read what the Fuse Bits needed to be in order to be able to flash them. The only reason I haven't is because of everyone saying it didn't work with the new ones and they burned them up. I'd rather save them for a plane or something and just buy new ones instead of burning them up. I wouldn't mind trying it if I knew I could put the original software back if it doesn't work. I read that you can't put it back so I'm back to not wanting to mess them up. I'd also be more willing to try if I could get a spare to try it on but they have been on backorder since I got it. So I just don't know what to do. I guess I'll buy some that are known to work with the firmware updates. Do you have a preference in controllers that you know work and that you have tested?

I have a 12v 1.5a for my External Hard Drives that I could use for testing but if I can't put the original firmware back on it if it doesn't work then I'll just get whatever controllers you like and know work and use them.

I'm going to checkout the stuff you mentioned and I'll get back to you on that. Thanks for the info and thank you for all your hard work on the firmware for everything you have worked on. I have some flight stabilizers I'll be trying it on :)

[Kidvette58]

One quick update. You said one thing that got me thinking, "don't mix stick input gain with stabilization gains". So I looked and found what you were talking about. The Stick Scaling was Roll 20 Pitch 20 Yaw 40 Throttle 90. So I moved up Roll and Pitch and got exactly what I was looking for. I'm happy with the Yaw and Throttle where it is for now. I thought the Stick Scaling was more like expo rates on the transmitter with making the sticks less or more sensitive in the middle range. I can actually get it to stop oscillating and have control like I like it. I like to have a lot of control and just hardly move the sticks so if I ever need a lot it's there. The only thing is there is no wind at all today so I'll let you know how that goes with more testing but I'm on the right track for now. I'd still like to order 4 speed controllers that are known to take the firmware updates just to play around with and see if it gives better control and helps it fly better so if you have a favorite or know of some that work well please let me know.

Thanx for the help! :)

[Kidvette58]

Hi Simon, I have been doing a lot of reading and I found that the (DS1054Z 50 MHz Digital Oscilloscope 4ch) is updatable to 100MHz by getting a code and entering it in your license key. It has a better screen and 2 more channels vs. the (DS1102E 100 MHz Digital Oscilloscope 2ch). Cost $30 more but would be worth it unless I'm missing something. Plus $30 isn't much at those prices! I will be working with electric motors 110v & 220v, AC 110v-220v, DC 0v-24v, home and car amplifiers, speakers, computers, circuit boards, R/C stuff as you know, and automotive applications. Not limited to that but that will give you an idea of what I want to use it on. I saw some PC scopes but at that price I figure it wouldn't give very detailed info. I saw some wave generator kits on amazon that are a lot cheaper than buying one already built but don't really know what I'm looking for. I don't know a lot about oscilloscopes except they measure stuff and are very cool and I have always wanted one. I found several books online and have been reading. Now I really want one! :) Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated on the subject with helping me make my decision on what to get.

EDIT: I was reading that the 2ch has the ext. trigger and the 4ch doesn't. Is that something I should worry about with the stuff I listed that I want to test?

Thank You!

[rittzy]

Can't believe I finally found a solution to this. What a way to start the hobby, I was right in the middle of building my first quad when I got two ESCs from the old batch and two ESCs with the TPC8123 pFETs. Long story short I didn't know what was going on and just bought new Afro ESC's with six dud multistars lying about.

Does anyone know if it is safe to mix the ESC's flashed with kda_8khz with ESC's flashed with the normal kda firmware on it? Not too sure what the 8Khz refers to.

Cheers

[sim-]

I've already wished a few times that I had yet another channel and the external trigger, but it really depends on what you're doing.

You can mix ESCs with different firmware. They may have very slightly different power characteristics, but you probably won't notice. 8kHz is the PWM frequency, which is a workaround for circuitry issues on the boards where they tried to change FETs but before they moved to a P/N design -- cross-conduction can occur and cause excessive heating. This is completely unrelated to the heating you might see if you flash the wrong target without using a current-limited source and fry some FETs. :)

[rittzy]

Yea that's understandable, cheers for getting back. Happened at the worst and most frustrating time for me when I was starting out but searching back then there was nothing on it.

The chip on the three ESC's that seemed ok at the time are the 4407A P-Channel which I am assuming are the old original ones? Before they changed them to N-Channel FETS?

[sim-]

Right, as in the first ones I received right when after they were announced: http://0x.ca/sim/esc/HK_9351000004_old/ There are some changes in the middle where 8kHz PWM is needed, and now they've finally moved to an all-N design http://0x.ca/sim/esc/HK_9351000004/

[rittzy]

Good to know, cheers for the info and for all the hard work you've put into this hobby.

[Kidvette58]

Hi Simon, I really don't know which one to get and could use some advise from someone who has knowledge of the equipment. The 2ch w/ext. trigger or 4ch. I listed what I would mostly be using it for but can narrow that down even more if it would help you with advising me. Mainly the R/C stuff like the speed controllers or testing components on circuit boards to see what went bad. Should I get the cheap PC 2ch scope w/ext. trigger for stuff I need an ext. trigger for and get the nice 4ch for everything else? Would the PC scope work good enough to test the speed controllers or are those just junk? I promise I won't get mad if you help me decide what I should get and I end up not liking it. Not that you care but just in case that was stopping you ;) Maybe you could point me in the direction of something that I could read to help me decide. I read a bunch on EEVblog but I couldn't find anything on what scope I should get. What do you use for testing the speed controllers?

Thank you, Merry Christmas if I don't type at you again before Xmas :)

[driftvk]

I recently bought a Turnigy SK450 with 20A multistars & flashed one of the esc's with kda_nfet.hex. Worked for a few secs & then ran hot and stopped, didn't release the smoke. Reflashed to kda_8khz but esc doesn't do its bootup sounds when power applied. Oops!

Turns out its a mixed P/N model with 4407A and 8020. See attached pics for anyone with same model so they don't make same mistake I did :)

http://postimg.org/image/eny28qmxt/ http://postimg.org/image/qai69va8x

Cheers

[sim-]

I use 4ch mostly only to capture all motor phases in complicated conditions. Your can use any channel on the 4ch as an external trigger. It's your call. :)

Those 20A multistars seem like P/N, so I'm surprised kda_nfet worked at all (reminds of that video where the ESC was shooting fire while working)... I really wish there was a reliable way of stopping before damage is caused in those cases.. I suppose it would possible if it saved state to the EEPROM to avoid being later confused by spinning motors, but it still sounds unreliable.

[Kidvette58]

That's another thing I was wondering. If you can use another channel as a trigger then u could have 3 channels with 1 trigger. So what's the benefit of a 2 channel scope with a trigger?

From what I read there are 3 versions of the Multistar 20a and the older 2 work fine but the newest one just burns up even though they say, and I quote, "All Multistar ESC's feature an ATmega MCU that opens the door to customizable firmware - for those so inclined!". On the RapidESC Database it says the newest one and middle one are N and the oldest one is P/N. The 2 older ones use kda and the new one uses kda_nfet. So I'm a little confused on that. Wouldn't you use something different on the one that has both P&N Fet's? I ordered mine on 10/24/14 and I have the ones that look like dflash0's pictures. I haven't seen any that look like turorit's pictures.

I'm going to save the Multistars for something else and get the Hobby King 20a Blue Series. I can get it to fly ok but if there's wind it oscillates fast and that makes for crappy video. If they ever get the Multistar 20a controllers back in stock I'm going to order a couple to experiment with and if you feel like helping I'll try any ideas you might have.

[rittzy]

Tried flashing some old Multistar 30amps with the kda_8khz that have the TPC8123 fet in them. Get extremely warm after a minute of running the motor. These were the ones I originally flashed the kda on but got too hot too fast, tried the kda_8khz version but still get warm. Any ideas? I'm not in any need of these but having some working spares ones would be good. Could anyone shine light on this?

Thanks

[megabri]

Hi rittzy, I have your same problem. One of four Turnigy Multistar 30A OPTO reflashed with kda.hex get extremely warm after a minute of running motor. It's very strange because the other 3 pieces working fine (flashed with same SimonK fw). I waiting for a solution, but I'm considering also the option to re-buy a different ESC model. Currently the 30A Multistar from HobbyKing is "dismissed product". Are you interest to buy my 3 pcs that work fine ?

[rittzy]

Make sure you check to see what MOSFET design they are using. If it's the TPC8123 one then try and flash the kda_8hz firmware as it seemed to work for a lot of people.

[megabri]

Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't find the kda_8khz.hex fw file, were I can download it ?

[rittzy]

Are you using the KKMulticopter Flashtool to flash the ESC? I have attached a screenshot of the drop down menu's you need to click in order to show the SimonK repository where the firmware files are. If you don't use this method let me know.

[megabri]

Thank you very much. To be honest I used the avrdude.exe with CLI, but in this case I will use kkmulticopter flash tool.

Regards Gabriele Merlonghi

Il giorno 29/dic/2014, alle ore 18:41, Chris notifications@github.com ha scritto:

Are you using the KKMulticopter Flashtool to flash the ESC? I have attached a screenshot of the drop down menu's you need to click in order to show the SimonK repository where the firmware files are. If you don't use this method let me know.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/10226066/5570965/d3d84da0-8f81-11e4-97d6-d267953f8928.png — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/sim-/tgy/issues/52#issuecomment-68279018.

[rittzy]

Let me know how it goes and if it works for you.

Cheers Chris

[Kidvette58]

Here's a link to the hex files if you want to download them, It's the latest from 9/30/14 http://0x.ca/tgy/downloads/tgy_2014-09-30_61a017f.zip

[megabri]

Yea, after some tests in the laboratory, seems that kda_8kha.hex fix the overheating problem on the 1 of 4 my Multistar 30A opto ESC. I saw the posted picture in this thread of these ESC, but mine are different... even though are Multistar 30A opto (bought on august 2014). Here my photos, maybe can be helpful for somebody. I confirm the there are TPC8123. Here the points where I soldered the wires to the programmer.

So, seems that you save my ESC with this fw. Currently I have 1 ESC with kda_8khz.hex fw and 3 others ESC with kda.hex fw (that seems not have the overheating issue and working fine).

My doubt now: I have to re-flash also the other 3 ESC with the kda_8khz.hex in order to have the same fw on all ESC ? What do you think about that ?

[rittzy]

I was told in an earlier post that it is possible to mix different firmwares as they should perform no differently but the only way to find out is to try.

I have two ESC's with the TPC8123 fet on it and even after flashing the kda_8khz they are still warm so I'm not too sure about them but my other ESC's are fine.

[Vytciokaz]

Hi, i have problem with Multistar 30A SBEC ESC. My ESC have TCPA 8012-H, this version: http://0x.ca/sim/esc/HK_9351000004/ By table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhR02IDNb7_MdEhfVjk3MkRHVzhKdjU1YzdBQkZZRlE#gid=0 i used kda_nfet.hex firmware. Flashed with kkMulticoper flash tool. But after flashing with kda_nfet.hex ESC won't work, motor glitching and not started. When connected battery (3S) beeps only once. Video: http://youtu.be/E1xM8fxjI8o How to solve this problem?

[mkunz7]

Just for the record. @dflash0 blheli looks they support the new multistar escs @dflash0 I have the same hardware as you and flashed it using blhelisuite. But it heats up very quick, motor jitters and doesn't fully spin just like kda_nfet.hex and Vytciokaz http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136895

[iamsarthakjoshi]

@turorit
"

I recently bought a Turnigy SK450 with 20A multistars & flashed one of the esc's with kda_nfet.hex. Worked for a few secs & then ran hot and stopped, didn't release the smoke. Reflashed to kda_8khz but esc doesn't do its bootup sounds when power applied. Oops!

Turns out its a mixed P/N model with 4407A and 8020. See attached pics for anyone with same model so they don't make same mistake I did :)

http://postimg.org/image/eny28qmxt/ http://postimg.org/image/qai69va8x

Cheers "

So how did you solve the problem? Can you please tell me ? I have same Quad and ESCs. I want to flash those with simon k.

[driftvk]

@iamsarthakjoshi Hi mate, Didn't end up resolving the issue in the end. I ended up swapping the dead esc with another random one I had laying around & flew the quad like that. Recently I bought 4 new ESCs, the hobbyking 20A (F-20A) & flashed those with simonk. Sorry I couldn't help!

[iamsarthakjoshi]

@turorit Thanks bud! I was going to flash those ESCs!! Lol and you saved me. Anyway let me know which version of simonk fw did you use on hobbyking 20A (F-20A) ?

Thanks again! :)

[driftvk]

@iamsarthakjoshi Haha glad to hear I was of some help then! For the F-20A I used bs_nfet.hex as per https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhR02IDNb7_MdEhfVjk3MkRHVzhKdjU1YzdBQkZZRlE#gid=0 and http://www.rchacker.com/diy/simonk-esc-firmware-flashing

Cheers

[iamsarthakjoshi]

@turorit Yeah you did :) Cool. Thanks! What about flashing with HK's Atmel Atmega Socket Firmware Flashing Tool? (No soldering no tinkering nothing.. just placing the tool on the chip and flashing.) I already have it. So do you think its possible to flash using Atmel Atmega Socket Firmware Flashing Tool ?

Does the ECSs work great after you flash them? I found a guy flashing the same Multistar 20A ESCs with audrino on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIk_h52rx8g) and they surprisingly worked.

[driftvk]

@iamsarthakjoshi I used the same tool as you to flash my F20A's, so no issues there. Interesting way to do it with the arduino, whatever works I guess, plenty of different ways to flash :)

ESCs work well after flashing, but to be honest I haven't noticed much of a difference between the multistar's and the reflashed f20a's. This might just come down to my P/I gains & general inexperience with quads/escs etc.

Happy tinkering!

[bla66]

can anyone halp me with right firmware for those esc?

they are from sk450 turnigy multistar sbec 4a 2-4lixx

[mamak1n]

Hi bla66 ,

did you solve it? Even I'm searchin the right firmware for the multistar 20a from turnigy sk450 (hobbyking).

I bought the atmel tool and usbasp, but don't know if to use the kda.hex or the kda_net.hex , can someone who have the same model can help me?

thank you

[bla66]

hey mamak1n

I have bought like you atmel tool and usbasp and i tried both kda.hex and kda_net.hex and ends up in burning the motors...so dont use any of them

I didn`t find any other useful software so i will buy this esc http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=15202&aff=754418 and new motors which i burned

when i install and try them i will update the post